Chemist claims first cloned human

Maybe i put an ad too, and offer free home for women who want to bear 3 of MY children !

 

Thanks Solarpowered Candle, i have the original of that long time and forwarded it to several places and each time see it coming back somewhere I really like it too.
Your nick is beauty as well!

Paul, you can start a football team with those, quite lucrative these days or have them register on this forum, not a bad idea either it seems (ask Geeske).

And for all those around and not around: best wishes to kick the old year back and welcome the new year 2003 and let it be better in every sense or we'll kick it back to get a better one now finally!

MdM excisting ones or new ones still in the building plans makes a big difference. And gov pays for the house and living?

 

Wow, I never stop wondering how lil people gets happy for so small things
http://www.scifi.com/happens/happens_1_big.mov

That movie made me happy plus the man who speaks with animals.

*Ari*

 

Well. What else can one say to this besides: "Oh RAELLY?!"


Too much, man. Just too much.

 

This one came just in my newsgroup:

Wonderul quote to end the year with and within this discussion.

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us 'Universe,' a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest - a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in
itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein, quoted in H Eves Mathematical Circles Adieu (Boston
1977).

 

Wow! Thank you, that may just be the best Einstein quote yet. Here is another one of his that I like:

"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

 

Jooske, you may find this hard to believe, but I came to believe this "concept" several years ago while I was wandering about in my search to find the truth, trying to find "God". I have, however, never been able to express the thought so clearly. Einstein, the man, never ceases to amaze me.
I find myself saying thanks to you the second time this morning, for providing very interesting and worthwhile reading.
Keep it up and have a wonderful New Year.

 

Thanks Root, and you will be all mouth open if you look in the "SpeakIt" ng among others at "milamo's" (Michael Lawrence Morton) postings about the ASM and his amazing calculations. Understanding that could cause immortality.

Searching for our True Self is a continu process; humanity will learn to look inside themselves for Infinite Source and not somewhere outside. Gibran in your signature is very inspiring too.

"I have learned so much from God
that I can no longer call myself
a Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Jew.
The truth has shared so much of itself with me
that I can no longer call myself
a man, a woman, an angel or even a pure soul.
Love has befriended me so completely
it has turned to ash and freed me
of every concept and image
my mind has ever known."
Hafiz

Hafiz was a 14th century muslim poet, i got this forwarded by an inspired tibetan lama. Isn't it timeless?

And reading such Einstein words and compare it with Carlos Castaneda, among others...... yes, it's not hard to believe you came to such conclusions in a "blitz" in your mind longer ago.

Have a wonderful new year!

 

My all time favorite quote ever comes from Ralph Waldo Emerson:
"The blazing evidence of Immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution."

Everyone, have a wonderful and beautiful New Year.

 

Well, since others are posting their opinions, I guess I better post mine.

I respectfully disagree. I look inside myself and see nothing but junk.

I respectfully differ again. The more I learn, the more I call myself a Christian.

Warm Regards,
Douglas

 

Errrrr, am I missing something here? Are you saying that Christians are made of nothing but junk?

 

What took them so long? Tssssssszz! this is only possible in..... !!

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=P3L3D42E2MUTACRBAEKSFEY?type=topNews&storyID=1979174

Legal Guardian Sought for Clone in Florida Court
Tue December 31, 2002 03:17 PM ET
By Jane Sutton
MIAMI (Reuters) - A Florida lawyer asked a state court on Tuesday to appoint a legal guardian for the baby girl purported to be the first human clone, saying the infant is being exploited and may have suffered birth defects.

But the company that said it produced a cloned human born last week has not disclosed the infant's whereabouts, citing concerns for her and her mother's security. And the lawyer who filed the suit acknowledged the court probably would have no jurisdiction unless the child is in Florida.

Attorney Bernard Siegel, acting as a private citizen, filed the dependency petition in state juvenile court in Fort Lauderdale asking that a judge appoint a legal guardian for the child and, if necessary, place her in state protective custody.

"The child is a possible victim of negligent infliction of severe, permanent and possibly fatal birth defects from the cloning experiment," Siegel said. "The child is being exploited."

Florida law allows anyone to file such a petition for court protection of a child if they have information that the child is in danger.

Brigitte Boisselier, chief executive of Clonaid, said at a news conference on Friday that the company had produced the first cloned human being, a "very healthy" 7-pound (3.2 kg) girl called Eve, born to a 31-year-old American woman.

Scientists greeted the claim with skepticism. Boisselier offered no immediate proof but said genetic testing was scheduled for Tuesday and the results would be made public in about a week.

Clonaid was founded by the creator of the Raelian Movement, a group that claims 55,000 followers around the world and asserts that life on Earth was sparked by extraterrestrials who arrived 25,000 years ago and created humans through cloning.

Siegel's petition named as respondents the child's unidentified mother, Clonaid, Boisselier and Raelian founder Claude Vorilhon. None of the respondents could immediately be reached for comment on Tuesday.

Siegel filed the suit in Fort Lauderdale because it is the county seat for Broward County, where Boisselier held the news conference announcing the birth.

Siegel has served on the board of a children's rights group and represented the parents of missing children but said he filed the petition as a private citizen.

Cattle, mice, sheep and other animals have been cloned with mixed success. Some have shown defects later in life and scientists fear the same could happen with cloned humans.

"I want to make sure the child has proper medical care," Siegel said. "I think the child should be brought before the court and a determination should be made as to what's in the best interest of the child."

 

Old Irish Quote: "Even God doesn't please everyone".

sk

 

I was following along until this line. Maybe it's a misquote, or I'm not quite reading it correctly, but if anything, I think it should be those who appear to want to play God who ought to be brought before the court, not the child. Just my 2 cents worth.

sk

 

I posted thw whole article from the posting.
I would not even think of thinking about these ways and grabbing a child from her mothers loving arms and all that legal struggle, nobody is waiting for. They don't know nothing, not where and how the kid is, her condition, circumstances, health, nothing at all. so to talk about any form of abuse or exploitation and legal matters is absurd. They don't even know for sure if the kid is a clone at all!
And so what, if it is, and it's illegal to clone humans, what do they want to do? Put it in a glass cage life long to be exposed to science and onlookers? Will that be for the kids well being? Or will they take other measures like in other forbidden projects (destroying all parts of evidence). Would that be in anybody's interest, most of all in the kids?
I'm completely against the absurdity of a lawsuit with the kid as subject; if they want discussions and laws in general that might be another matter, but it can't be stopped anymore at all.

 

And it's also warped and twisted that in all likelihood the law that they passed in Florida to allow virtual total strangers to get involved in a child's life was probably the result of them wanting to be able to actually help children; so that even IF a virtual stranger knew a child was in danger, s/he could help out without getting all caught up in red tape. But in this instance the very law that was supposed to help children got turned on its head. This is defnitely something to keep a close eye on. Unfortunately, I think this is only the tip of the iceberg as far as the Twilight Zone nature goes.

sk

 

Thought in fact worldwide were already laws agreed on against cloning, projects on cloning in general (and genetic manipulation) close eyes on.
Imagine: on internet (and society) we are very much concerned about security and identity theft.
What if cloning possibilities go so far one could steal a cell from a person to clone him/her?
You sneeze, you go for a haircut, a dentist, cut your nails, have your laundry done, you name it........
See the possibilities: now i really go into sci-fi thinking:
could it be a clone has the same thoughtpatterns, information and education stored in their brains as the original? So could third parties steal that way information? Wow, lots of possibilities.......

 

Here's some more about the clone stories.

Second Cloned Baby Said Imminent, but No DNA Tests
Fri January 3, 2003 12:30 AM ET
By Catherine Bremer

PARIS (Reuters) - A second cloned baby will be born this week, a firm claiming to have produced the first human clone said on Thursday, although it has failed to carry out genetic tests it promised to provide as proof. Chief executive Brigitte Boisselier of Clonaid, set up by a cult that believes mankind was created by aliens, told France 2 television and BBC Two in Britain that another cloned baby was due to be born somewhere in Europe before the end of the week.

But in interviews with both TV stations, the French scientist and cult member said DNA tests on baby Eve, born to a 31-year-old American woman last Friday, had been put off because the parents were anxious about keeping their identity secret.

Clonaid had said it would take DNA samples on Tuesday to pacify skeptics and would provide the results a week later.

"These tests have not been carried out. We have had to push them back," Boisselier said, saying the baby's parents felt under pressure after a Florida lawyer this week asked a state court to appoint a legal guardian for the baby.

"For the time being the parents told me they are giving themselves another 48 hours to decide whether or not they will do the tests. The parents have gone home and they just want some peace and to spend time with their child," she told France 2.

"Perhaps the second child will be more accessible because it is in Europe and the country in which he or she will be born may be less sensitive," she said, adding the birth was due in days.

"It will be this week," she said.

CLONES ARE "BELATED TWINS"

Clonaid was founded by the creator of the Raelian Movement, a religious cult that believes aliens landed on earth 25,000 years ago and started the human race through cloning.

Clonaid, which says it has a list of 2,000 people willing to pay $200,000 to have themselves or a loved one cloned, announced its breakthrough last Friday and said four more cloned babies would be born by the end of January.

The news sparked condemnation from world leaders, religious figures and scientists, who are calling for proof.

"I am confident these tests will be done soon and will be given to you as proof soon enough," Boisselier told BBC 2's Newsnight current affairs program.

She said the obstacle was a filing by a U.S. lawyer on Tuesday asking a Florida court to appoint a guardian for the baby. Under Florida law anyone can file a petition for court protection if they have information that a child is in danger.

The baby's parents were concerned that the person appointed by Clonaid to carry out DNA tests would have to reveal their identity to the Florida court, even though the baby may well fall outside the court's jurisdiction.

"The parents are not ready to take that chance yet. I'm discussing with them, because they said they would go public, that was the agreement we had. Right now I have no heart to push them knowing they could lose so much," Boisselier said.

Cattle, mice, sheep and other animals have been cloned with mixed success. Some have shown defects later in life.

Boisselier is a member of the Raelians, who claim 55,000 followers around the world. The cult's founder, Rael, says he learned about the origin of life on earth from a visitor from space and sees cloning as a way of achieving eternal life.

Boisselier attacked the media portrayal of Raelian beliefs, saying they were "much more rational than other visions of the origin of life" and defended the right of parents to replace children who had died with what she said were "belated twins."

 

Now HERE'S a scary thought: (or the source for maybe a new poll) HOW MANY PEOPLE THINK MICHAEL JACKSON IS ALREADY ON THAT LIST?
sk

 

Good source of income, if everything else fails, can sell cells one for one for cloning, even for $1, each that's still a fortune. Could become a new hype, no more funerals, just a cells sale, ebay full, but one must reserve space months in advance.
With MJ is an interesting question: what would we get from him: the nice kind sweet black boy he once was in his younger years or the bleached poor creature he is now? I mean: did the doctors change his genes to keep him white or is there a need to keep on bleaching? The few parts shown from his little one (wasn't the mother dark as well?) showed rather light colored, so one can think.......
Chances a clone from him would have holes like holes in the cheese everywhere. Would not even want it as a present, not even if they paid well for it. No thanks!
Good you mention this example!
If there should be one lawsuit against a child needing legal observation for it's safety it would be that one shown in the losing balcony scene. Cloned or not.

 

Amen to THAT, Jooske!

 

Another interesting question: how many would have reserved/subscribed on persons from interesting movies like Gandalf, Yoda, dr.Spock?
How to realize and manipulate the DNA is the scientist's problem, but the world could look really nice with such personalities all over.
Could lead to clone-certificates for donations etc or if your personality/DNA is welcome for future generations.
Imagine, if people get it the natural ways nobody is really making trouble in 99% of the cases, but the moment science is called to help and to advance ......... !
BTW: it's not only the Raelians telling humanity was created by cloning so they don't have copyrights on that idea.

 

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I personally would opt for a Jooske clone - IF one were to ever become available, that is.
(i.e. "Hey, LOOK KIDS, we got MALIBU JOOSKE!!)
lol

 

<grin>
Thinking again:
people who get transplants and receiving blood transfusions notice they feel different (several books written about that) so there seems to be memory and experiences stored in any tissue; so only if the clone is carried by it's own mother (i guess) you could get a real exact copy with the same behavior and maybe even memory/knowledge.
So what would you get if it is only growing from cells in a tube, no human but just all the fluids and chemicals necessary for it's development? Would we get something with basic instincts or would there be more, also natural growth etc?

Further one wonders if there is a kind of natural connection between the original and the clones like a computer and it's clients in the WAN (wireless); imagine possibilities here!